When I interviewed Kravchuk in 1992, every one was concerned
about the region’s stability, the future of the Soviet Union’s nuclear
stockpile and how Ukraine would protect itself from Moscow. The interview was
lengthy and was forthcoming and optimistic. When the issue of nuclear weapons
came up, and who was in charge, he explained that the weapons were divided
amongst Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Russia and Byelorussia and there was a protocol
that prevented an accidental nuclear war.
To illustrate, he escorted me, my photographer and a
translator-friend into his private office where two telephones sat – one red
and one white. The red one connected him directly to the Kremlin and the white
connected him to the leaders of the three other republics that housed nuclear
weapons. A nuclear attack was only possible, he said, if all four agreed upon
it.
That seemed tenuous at the time, but what happened following
those tumultuous events has contributed to today’s violence by Russia and its
operatives who have caused 6,200 deaths, 30,000 wounded, 1.3 million displaced
persons and the loss of 9% of Ukraine’s territory.
Last week, I asked Kravchuk for a follow-up interview – more
than 20 years later after my first and a subsequent interview in 1993 — and he
agreed. This is what he said.
I began by asking him about his comment, in the press after
the 2014 ousting of Victor Yanukovych, that he would pick up weapons to keep
the Russians from taking over Ukraine. “I someone is in my house, I will be
shooting back without a second thought,” he said metaphorically. “I have told
my guards not to stand near me, if that ever happens, because I will be
shooting in every direction and they may be in the way.”
He then explained the depth of his feelings about what’s
happening.
“I was given the country when it was part of the Soviet Union
and worked toward independence. My life would be in vain if they take this land
and that is why there is no alternative but to fight,” he said.
Ukraine has been a “hostage” to Russia ever since
independence, and has been “occupied” by the Russians, economically, investment
wise and trade wise for a long time, he said. “They took away the best assets. They
have occupied Ukraine step by step gradually then eventually at the top. It
used to be they controlled only trade and the economy but then it became the
political and military leadership.”
The seizure of Crimea and incursion in the east is a
“violation of all international documents signed by civilized societies. It is
warfare in the Donbas. This is not a hybrid war, or a separatist movement, but
this is true warfare,” he said. “They claim this is about Russian volunteers,
but it’s a true military aggression by the Russian military. I’m amazed
officials in Western countries cannot say that the Russians are waging a war
against the Ukrainians. The French president actually said he has not seen any
Russian troops in Ukraine.”
Kravchuk said there is little understanding in Europe or
North America that Ukraine is unique and
not a part of Greater Russia. “In 1991, I was in Davos [the World
Economic Forum] at a roundtable and a European prime minister asked me how
many people lived in Ukraine? I said 50 million and he told me I was wrong that
it could only be 5 million. Imagine that. More recently, it’s obvious that leaders
know very little about Ukraine and our history and this is a problem,” he said.
“We must change awareness worldwide.”
Leonid Kravchuk, Ukraine’s first president, and author Diane Francis.
I asked Kravchuk about Ukraine’s decision to surrender its
nuclear weapons and whether that condemned the country to Russian infiltration
and takeover. He then told the behind-the-scenes story as to how that came
about.
“The U.S. has always cared about the Middle East, energy and
terrorism,” he said. “So after the collapse of the Soviet Union, the U.S.
pressured us to destroy our nuclear weapons and gave us $700 million to do so
in 1994.”
Was this a fatal mistake? I asked.
“Let me explain. We had 165 strategic missiles, 40 with
solid fuel and the rest with liquid fuel that was extremely dangerous. All the
warheads were produced in Russia and put on Ukrainian missiles, but by 1998
these warheads had to be replaced or they would possibly blow up,” he said. “We
asked where we could get warheads to replace them and asked the Americans to
help us. They refused and said cooperate with and work with the Russians, (Boris) Yeltsin. I objected and said I cannot work with the Russians and let them fool
us and cheat on us.”
Kravchuk then engaged in lengthy negotiations with President
Bill Clinton and Vice President Al Gore but the U.S. and Western Europe imposed
systematic pressure on us. “They threatened us with sanctions, isolation and
personal threats and Ukraine became a hostage. They promised protection,” he
said.
This led to the infamous 1994 Budapest Memorandum – signed
by the U.S., UK, France, Russia and China – that clearly says signator
countries will guarantee Ukraine’s territorial integrity. But the U.S.
and the others have ignored Ukraine’s needs.
Another option was to join NATO right away to protect the
country against future Russian aggressions, he said. “But NATO did not want
Ukraine as a member and 23% of Ukrainians were against joining it in 1994. Of
Ukraine’s 450 parliamentarians, 380 were Communist Party members and absolutely
against NATO and considered the United States, the enemy of the Soviet Union.”
Alone and disarmed, the Russians spent the next 20 years
tightening their grip, gutting Ukraine’s military and Ukrainian leaders let
them do so.
“The exterior façade of our government is Ukrainian, but
internally it was not Ukrainian. Ukraine was never involved. Russians were here
running the secret service and organizing meetings against Ukraine,” he said.
I asked him about a suggestion that Ukraine appeal under the
Geneva Convention to be designated as an “occupied country” which will lead to
a suspension of debts freeing up more money for defense and impose reparations
on Russia for damage, displacement and deaths. This requires United Nations
approval.
“I am ready to agree and sign such an initiative as the
first President of Ukraine. I think other prominent Ukrainians would agree to
do this, but I think Russia would veto this on the Security Council and the
General Assembly I have doubts about,” he said.
“But the Rada should discuss this, then vote on it and if
the President signs it the country should petition the United Nations,” he
said. “I will help in such a process and I’m also preparing an all-Ukrainian
referendum on entering NATO.”
I asked him about Putin and his motives.
“Putin’s policy is to
conquer Ukraine and keep it a slave. He wants to restore the Greater Russian
Empire, not the Soviet Union,” he said.
This philosophy, he said, is no different than Hitler’s who
wanted to incorporate all Germanic people under an expanded Third Reich empire.
“Western Europe gave Hitler lands bit by bit. He swallowed
these bits and decided to take everything. Now Europe doesn’t resist [Putin] in
order to avert World War III. But Putin’s popularity in Russia is not because
of his democratic reforms or economic prosperity. He’s popular because of his
aggressiveness. It’s the only thing that supports his ratings. With 80%
support, this is dangerous,” he said. “Russia’s ideological brainwashing is
better than techniques used by Goebbels around the world.”
For instance, he blames Russian propaganda for spreading
rumors that the thousands fighting in Ukraine’s volunteer battalions are
neo-Nazis. “They are nationalists, not fascists. This is no Pravda, not true.
It’s rubbish.”
The interview over, we shake hands and pose for a photo. He
says Ukrainians must never give up to keep their country and he never will.
