Original at Ukrainska Pravda – link provided following text translation
ncho'”>Editor’s note: The following is a revised English-language translation of the tape that Socialist Party leader Oleksandr Moroz made public on Nov. 28 allegedly linking President Leonid Kuchma, presidential administration head Volodymyr Lytvyn and Interior Minister Yuri Kravchenko to the disappearance of opposition journalist Georgy Gongadze.
The translation is based on a new, clearer version of the recordings. Individual speakers have been identified following the Ukrainska Pravda on-line version, and KPnews neither acknowledges nor denies that the speakers are those individuals whose names have been provided throughout the transcript. Explanations for what the speakers are referring to have been provided throughout in parentheses where the editor thought this to be most appropriate.
English-language translation follows below.
Episode 1
Kuchma (Speaking via communication device – presumably a speaker phone) – Hello.
Lytvyn – Hello.
– And you give me this one at Ukrainska Pravda. (phrase undecipherable) And we’ll decide what to do with him. He’s simply gone too far already.
Lytvyn – I need a case (a court case, presumably).
Kuchma – Wha-?
Lytvyn – Do I need a case? … (undecipherable)
Kuchma – Okay.
Lytvyn – A case … we’ll make one directly into copies (difficult to figure out what this means – presumably, this means to make photocopies of a court case – Ed.)
Kuchma – No, I don’t need a case. … (conducts conversation with unidentified man) – Ukrainska Pravda, well, this is completely already, blyad, insolence. Bastard, blya. The Georgian, Georgian, blin.
Unidentified individual – Gongadze?
Kuchma – Gongadze. Well, who could be financing him?…
Unidentified individual – Well, he actively works with this, with Moroz, with Hrani (Web site). I will… him with Matvienko on Saturday (This could mean “I will meet with Matvienko on Saturday – Ed.).
Kuchma – To court, maybe. Here, people’s deputies. Let the lawyers take him to court. This goes to the prosecutor, right?
Unidentified individual – No, Let Kravchenko say about me and also about (unclear what this means -Ed.) (undecipherable words – Horbaneyev or Kompaneyev) and (about) Khalandovich.
– (undecipherable)
Kuchma – It’s just, blya, … there is some kind of limit, son-of-a-bitch, blya. … Deport him, blyat, to Georgia and throw him the f*** out there.
Unidentified individual – Drive him out to Georgia and throw him there.
Kuchma – The Chechens need to steal him and throw him away.
Episode 2
Kravchenko – I believe, this surname (meaning, “I think I’ve ran across this name before” – Ed.).
Kuchma – Well, bastard, blya, highest limit
Kravchenko – Gongadze. We already came across (this individual in the past)…
Kuchma – Wha-?
Kravchenko – We came across him somewhere. We’re looking.
Kuchma – The things he constantly writes in some kind of “Ukrainska Pravda”, he throws it into the Internet, understand. Well who? Someone finances him.
Kravchenko – (undecipherable) I have people (undecipherable) …
Kuchma – But the main thing, I’m telling you, as an example (presumably, to make an example for others – Ed.), that’s what Volodya says, the Chechens need to steal him and drive him the f*** out to Chechnya and ask for a ransom.
Kravchenko – Eh, we’ll just… him somewhere (as in, “get rid of him somehow – Ed.) … I’m telling you … These are the type of people (laughing) just unbelievable… (undecipherable), (I) haven’t understood anywhere (apparently in the sense of “I can’t figure out who these kind of people think they are” – Ed.)
Kuchma – Well, and drive him out to Georgia, and that’s it.
Kravchenko – In the first place, will we be giving an assignment (to someone), not an assignment, (through? – Ed.) that head of the rayon division…, oh, you remember, the one in Chernihiv oblast who said: “Let the president pay you “
Kuchma – Yeh-yeh-yeh.
Kravchenko – They’ve already released the deputy head, right. They started a criminal case against him. Under (Article) 165 (of the Criminal Code) these are official service violations, and 187 (also). That’s why, I think, that here, sometime this week, we’ll show him.
Kuchma – Yeh-Yeh. Let (it be that way, apparently – Ed.)
Kravchenko – We’ll also show who to say what to.
Episode 3
Kuchma – Under Gongadze (meaning, apparently, under the Gongadze matter – Ed.) there is, besides (that information) that he works together with Moroz, that he writes for Moroz in his Hrani, these (articles, apparently) starting from the summer, (and) that Brodsky finances him.
Kravchenko – Well, (this kind of individual) is the type of garbage, that ever there was. I wouldn’t be surprised if they have connections with the socialists there. … Well, we’ll take care of things with them. I think this … is
Kuchma – And Brodsky, this is Medvechuk and Surkis? Through Surkis.
Kravchenko – This is (the type of situation – Ed.) that there are connections between them, this is…
Kuchma – No, right now, they’re friends, one hundred percent! I remember this game at Kievskie Vedomosti (newspaper). Surkis – I don’t wish (anything) for this blyad, Jew, blyad … good. And now I’ve read there (in the newspaper) several of those same conversations of theirs.
Kravchenko – Ta nu (in the sense of, “Let me explain to you how it is – Ed.), he’s the one (not clear to whom “he” refers to – Ed.) who places them (publishes them in the newspaper, apparently – Ed.). That was their methodology then. And that’s (the one that) still exists (that’s the same method that they still use). They create a problem there, then afterwards, they go to someone as though to help him (and create the impression that they want to help him) and later, it turns out, that that person becomes dependent on them. And that’s how, in this way, he (meaning that person that they go to help – Ed.)… somewhere – This is a huge spectacle at (such an incredible – Ed.) level, perhaps (on a) national (level) they played this out. And it had its effect. Well, this is that kind of matter (the nature of this type of matter – Ed.) Well, this, maybe …
Episode 4
Kuchma – I would like to ask you about this kind of form. I mean, to use, so that I don’t forget. This Gongadze.
Kravchenko – I’m, we’re working on him. Meaning, (speaker is about to start providing a report or explanation – Ed.)
Kuchma – I’m telling you, drive him out, throw (him) out. Give him to the Chechens. (undecipherable), and then a ransom.
Kravchenko – We’ll think it through. We’ll do it, so that.
Kuchma – Meaning (in the sense of, “I’m telling you” – Ed.) drive him out, undress him, blya, leave him without his pants, let him sit there. I’d do it simply, blya (meaning, “I’d keep it simple – Ed.)
Kravchenko – Today, they reported to me (about the situation). We’re working (on it) (just a ) little, (a) little more (we) need to learn (the situation), we’ll do it (in the sense of “We’ll bring the matter to a close” – Ed.). I have right now a fighting team (at my command), such eagles, who do everything that you want. That’s the situation at present.
Lytvyn – I don’t understand something here, you’re keeping quiet about Gongadze?
Kravchenko – (To be) honest. Nu (in the sense of “I have to tell you” – Ed.), I’m reporting to you (in the sense of, “Let me tell you” – Ed.). We made a bit of a mistake there.
Kuchma – He’s (reference apparently to Gongadze – Ed.) got a team there headed by, they told me the last name, blya (in the sense of “I can’t remember the last name” – Ed.).
Kravchenko – Meaning (in the sense of, “I’m about to provide an explanation” – Ed.) (he) wrote a complaint to the Prosecutor General. Well, I think…
Kuchma – Who?.
Kravchenko – Him (apparently in reference to Gongadze – Ed.). I made a bit of a mistake here. But now I’m thinking, why I made a mistake. Now I’ll tell you. I went to the deputy head (deputy police chief) for running the city of Kyiv Opanasenko. I think that Opanasenko will be – to us (not clear what this means – Ed.), and that now … (that) group (Opanasenko’s, apparently – Ed.) has been closed. It was Opanasenko who through his (employees) began getting to the bottom of what kind of car (that was following Gongadze) and wrote Potebenko (the prosecutor general), that is, a complaint.
Kuchma – Who? Opanasenko?
Kravchenko – No, Gongadze. Nu (in the sense of “I’m continuing the explanation of what happened” – Ed.), and here (meaning, in the complaint) he (Gongadze) gives the (license plate) numbers that expired a year ago. I’m changing the plan here a little because… I want to get rid of that Opanasenko. I began having doubts (about my original plan, apparently – Ed.) when they reported to me all the way in Kirgizia (it would seem from this phrase that the speaker was there at the time that these events were unfolding – Ed.) that Opanasenko is interested in the (license plate) numbers, so I said: wait, so that it (the complaint, probably – Ed.) … I’ll arrive (in the sense of “return”) when the complaint is (ready; in place). Therefore … I will do (it) to him (in the sense that, “I will take care of him – Opanasenko” – Ed.). I’ll do it Leonid Danilovich (Kuchma). I simply, so that it, so that nothing works out anywhere. Well, he’s (Opanasenko, apparently – Ed.) going to complain. He writes here that this could be like a payback for my doings (it is not clear whether the speaker is referring to his own doings, or to those of Opanasenko, but from the context, it would appear that the latter is the most likely – Ed.). And the like.
Kuchma – Well, here they’re throwing such (in the sense of “so much” or “such quantities of” – Ed.) dirt into Russia through the Internet. You know, into the Internet through Russia. Clear (in the sense of “Is that clear?” – Ed.)
Kravchenko – I’m not letting Gongadze out. Simply for me now there is a question (an issue left) what it (is) … I (have) my team there … there are contacts (this could mean that the team has made progress in figuring out about Gongadze’s personal habits and the people with whom he associates – Ed.). … I put armed surveillance there. I want to learn (make a study of) his (Gongadze’s) contacts. What it (all adds up to)…
Kuchma – And does Gongadze have a team? They named some surnames there (unclear who “they” are, or where the surnames were mentioned. (These are the ones who are) scribbling this dirt (writing these things in newspapers, Internet) There are three of them.
Kravchenko – We have them. We have them all. But I want to start with him (apparently Gongadze). Because I want to see how the General (Prosecutor) will react. Whether there are numbers there (not clear if telephone-contact numbers are meant), do I know (apparently in the sense of “It’s possible that they have numbers there, and I would like to find out” – Ed.) Well (in the sense of, “I’m continuing my explanation” – Ed.), he (Opanasenko, apparently) writes here (it would seem that the speaker is referring to a document or letter from Opanasenko, possibly the one referred to above where Opanasenko presumably complains – Ed.)…, that this could (be) – (the thought here is not completed, but what the speaker may have had in mind to say, was what he said before – that Opanasenko is saying that what is or has been done to him is like a payback for his actions – Ed.).
Kuchma – And what connection (does) the General (Prosecutor’s Office) (have) to Gongadze?
Kravchenko – Well, their (possibly reference to Gongadze – Ed.) declaration (complaint – Ed.) is there. This is official.
Kuchma – And so what?
Kravchenko – The declaration is official. Well, I’ll also look at how they’ll be (apparently meaning, “I’ll look at how they react,” possibly at the Prosecutor General’s Office – Ed.).
Kuchma – And why does every sh** have to write to the General Prosecutor?
Kravchenko – Leonid Danylovych…
Kuchma – Here, just send it to the rayon prosecutor.
Kravchenko – I don’t know (can’t guess) what the prosecutor there will say. This is the prosecutor (apparently in the sense of “you know what I mean”)… It’s who’s got the money (meaning, “it depends on who’s got the money and who pays in order to get something done” – Ed.) … (laughter). I wish all of the best (meaning, “I am hoping for the best possible outcome” – Ed.)
Kuchma – Thanks.
Episode 5
Kravchenko – Well, Leonid Danylovych (Kuchma), what’s new, meaning (apparently, speaker is about to explain what he has in mind) …
Kuchma – Gongadze, or what?
Kravchenko – Exactly … (undecipherable). Today, there, we … observed (in the sense of “found something out” – Ed.).
Kuchma – Are they looking after Holovaty?
Kravchenko – Ta (in the sense of “yeh-yeh” or «sure» – Ed.) they’re looking. They’ve already found two ties (connections, contacts). We’re following him (conducting surveillance of him). I want to khlopnut (slang for kill, murder, like “pop him” – Ed.) him. I want to pop him straight and simple. I’ll throw (as in bait – Ed.)(him) a prostitute, the very best there is (more in the sense of a woman who is well-versed in combining sexual temptation and cunning – Editor’s guess). Then… I’ll remove those (not clear what reference to – Ed.). I think – (he) won’t go anywhere (won’t get away, apparently – Ed.).(undecipherable). Simply (because) that one thing will get out (become known) and so that…
Everything that has been assigned, everything is working. So, I think with time Gongadze in a few days (meaning, apparently, we’ll get to, or we will be in a position to deal with Gongadze soon – Ed.). We have to wait and see how things turn out with one director (as in film or TV program director) … I looked there at selected materials of his. There’s this one Yeliseyev… this is “Svoboda” (newspaper), Lyashko.
Kuchma – I have Lyashko … (undecipherable) we will …him (two hand claps)
Kravchenko – Well (in the sense of “I’m adding to what’s been said” – Ed.), behind that sh** there’s already (in the sense that the speaker is prepared to say who stands behind Lyashko – Ed.) (undecipherable)… Omelchenko… they got together (meaning, they joined forces – Ed.)… (They are ) the ones who have control, where they are (apparently, the speaker is saying that the above-mentioned individuals have control over determining what the whereabouts of other individuals are – Editor’s guess).
Episode 6
Kuchma – How should I say this… Kravchenko promised to take care of it
Lytvyn – (undecipherable) The Georgian embassy made an official announcement and made an anonymous call (from) the embassy that the Moscow rayon needs to be searched and Volkov is dealing with this matter, (as well as ) Kravchenko and Kisil. One can’t place politics… undermine it… (for purposes of) undermining… this also is intolerable…
Kuchma – The ambassador has to be summoned
Lytvyn – Me too (apparently in the sense of “I think so too” – Ed.)… And make some kind of notation (apparently in the sense of writing something official) or (give a ) warning, or have a conversation (talk to the Georgian ambassador).
Kuchma – A phone call needs to be made… and get him the hell out, this sort of ambassador, blin (in the sense of, “who needs this kind of ambassador.” – Ed.)
(on the phone) Koval, you need to be removed. Have you been taking care of things with the Georgian embassy?
Koval – (answer) We will now start to take care of things
Kuchma – And summon him, blya, let him (provide an) answer (give an explanation), otherwise I’ll call Shevarnadze to remove him the hell out of here.
Koval – Okay
Kuchma – And say (the following words) that I will call Shevarnadze, to remove him the hell out of here.
Koval – Okay, okay, I’m summoning him right now.
Episode 7
Kuchma making a phone call to Leonid Derkach, head of the State Security Service
Kuchma – Listen, they just showed me (these) newspapers, blyat, all these, blyat, (which are) being published. Well, Hrysha Omelchenko is continuing to publish a paper in Kremenchug. (Pause) Well, what are you bullsh**ing. No, no, right now, for the 15th of September, he put out a paper. (pause) And I’m telling you, September 15 (he) published a newspaper. “Svoboda” (newspaper), blya, is being published, and you’re still (going on) about that… Well there, well there, there are such (insulting) caricatures there. (Pause) So then you invite Yulia. F*** your mother, you invite Yulia, and ask: “dear one, what are you bitch, blya, doing? Do you want us to, blya, you, blya, completely, blya, or what – (In the sense of, “destroy you completely” – Ed.).” And say: “why are you financing Omelchenko, why are you doing this-and-that.” Don’t you know the method of your job, or what (how you should operate – Ed.), how that (type of thing) is done all over the world. So, if they aren’t one f***ing bit afraid of you. F*** your mother, what’s with you. Why should you be feared? It is our service that they are afraid of. … I am the one who appointed you. So that’s why, let’s go.
Episode 8
One more conversation with Derkach
Kuchma – Listening. And where are you looking. In Poltava oblast, in Kremenchug this bastard Omelchenko is publishing such a newspaper there, blya, simply incredible. With caricatures, blya, (of) the president, and dirty publications. So therefore, he can’t …the security service together with the prosecutor (can) start a criminal case together. These lawyers looked at (this matter) there and say that there are grounds to start such a case. Where’s the Service. Well, yeh. Then why aren’t they reporting now. They bring me this newspaper… Newspapers, blya, they deliver (them) to me here, while the service doesn’t report one f***ing thing at all. (Pause) And that’s what’s most interesting. So, I’ll look (into) who takes part in (these things), in this same (newspaper, apparently). All of these anti-presidential correspondents… Yeh, and that includes Korobova, “Hrani”. F*** your mother, imagine, this bitch, blya, this whore (who?) of newspapers that he brought her into. … That Gongadze, blya, good-bye-good riddance.
Lytvyn – They all need to be…
(speaker unidentified – Ed.) – The level of influence of the Verkhovna Rada is 4 percent, the level of influence of the Cabinet of Ministers or the premier (is) 0…
(speaker unidentified) – On (the) mass media?
Kuchma – Well yeh.
(speaker unidentified) – Understand, what he (not clear whom reference is to) is counting on so that God forbid a finger isn’t pointed at (him)
– …
Kuchma – Well, of course.
Episode 11
Kuchma…
Kravchenko – Leonid Danilovych, I want to report. I think, that I figured out all of his structures completely, yes. And now the team is muffling (the matter). Meaning, everything, it seems. We got everything that he has (in the sense of “that there is on him” – Ed.).
Kuchma – The fund Zlahoda, right?
Kravchenko – everything is there (the fund), everything. I looked there.
Kravchenko – And besides the newspaper “Toavarish” they also have this new newspaper, Leonid Danylovych. So, we are going to have (find out everything about, apparently) all (of) the structures. And now (about) that gang that distributed leaflets from Holovaty?
Kuchma – Right (go ahead).
Kravchenko – (This is how it went), the day before yesterday he ended up all the way (out) in Sumy oblast, the one that distributed (the leaflets). (You wouldn’t believe how) they gave it to him out there (laughter). And he yells: “It was Holovaty (who sent me – apparently meaning Holovaty was responsible, and not the leaflet distributor)” (Laughter) And he came home, and his dacha caught fire and the door burned down.
Kuchma – Whose?
Kravchenko – His (both laughing), of course.
– …
Kuchma – And he distributed (leaflets) once or….
Kravchenko – So we… him (“So, this is what we did with him” – Ed.), the sh**, he came out again with a new packet. That same day 15 cops… And he had 3 bodyguards. Later, (he came out again) with no one (guarding him), (and they put him) – in a car. And when they drove off… (he said) “I won’t (do this) anymore, this is Holovaty (‘s doing). Who’s your chief? Who’s your chief? (Apparently meaning, “take me to your chief”), I’ll be a witness.” Well, to keep it short…
Kravchenko – … (Undecipherable) I have (an incredible) subdivision, their methods, they have no moral principles, they have nothing (of the sort). So that God forbid… Meaning, there’s nothing (of the kind). So that, simply, that is, I (took care of things? – Ed.). I have a group … and (they’re) beginning to muffle (the situation). So, with your permission, I will then talk things over with Azarov.
Kravchenko – I need for them to also take part.
Kuchma – Azarov also has (a reason to participate) …
Kravchenko – Well, it’s possible that something could go wrong, But we’re continuing to work. Well, and I think that things for us with the prosecutor…
Kuchma – Is there anything interesting (going on) there?
Kravchenko – Nothing of the kind (in the sense of, “How could there be anything interesting there – at the prosecutor’s office” – Ed.)…
Original at: http://www.pravda.com.ua/?0121-3-8
