Editor’s Note: The following are excerpts of an interview with French President Emmanuel Macron broadcast on April 18 by CBS-TV’s “Face The Nation” Sunday news program. This is the portion of the interview devoted to Russia’s war against Ukraine. The entire transcript and video of the interview is here.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mr. President, there are roughly 31,000 Russian troops massed on the border of Ukraine right now. What will France do if Vladimir Putin invades?
PRESIDENT MACRON: I think the situation is unacceptable, and Chancellor Merkel and myself spoke with President Putin a few days ago. I received a few hours ago President Zelensky, president of Ukraine, and we had a discussion as well – with Chancellor Merkel. And we- we sent a very clear message totally in line with the one delivered by President Biden. Russia has to deescalate. This is clear. The situation today and the level of tension at the border is absolutely counterproductive and unacceptable. And we- we- we are fully committed to what we call the Normandy format, Russia, Ukraine, Germany, and France to deliver- I mean, following the Minsk agreement, i.e., we want now a political process to deal with some Ukrainian regions and to pacify- for stability and peace for Ukraine and Ukrainian people —
MARGARET BRENNAN: But Vladimir Putin has blown that off for years. And- and sanctions have not stopped him. Those diplomatic efforts have not stopped him. You yourself have referenced NATO as being “brain dead.” What is actually going to stop Vladimir Putin from invading?
PRESIDENT MACRON: Look, I think what happened a few years ago when Ukraine was invaded, it’s not a failure of diplomacy, it’s a failure of our collective credibility vis-à-vis Russia. And I think when we put red lines, we have to make them respected by our people and the others. And I think we have to be clear and tough. And I think what happened first in Syria provided the feeling to President Putin that now it was a part of rebels and it provoked and basically invaded Ukraine. Right after that, we launched precisely the Minsk process, which was the beginning of a diplomatic agenda. And I cannot tell that this is a failure of diplomacy. It was a failure of a naïve approach vis-à-vis Russia. I’m- I’m- I’m definitely in favor of discussion with Russia, with an open, quiet, and respectful discussion with Russia. But I think that when we put red lines, we have to be sure to be credible and to make these red lines respected by the authors. And to be clear, when Russia doesn’t respect it or reassure its partner, this is what happened in Syria in 2018. And together with the US and UK, we intervene in an operation precisely Assad’s use of chemical weapons. Now–
MARGARET BRENNAN: Understood.
PRESIDENT MACRON: In Ukraine, if we want to be efficient, we have to accelerate the diplomatic agenda and US, Europe, all of us have to be very clear vis-à-vis Russia. We will never accept a new military operation on Ukrainian soil and we have to build the way to be credible vis-à-vis that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you think that what President Biden did with sanctions will have any- make any difference to Vladimir Putin this time? Will it stop him?
PRESIDENT MACRON: I think we- we need an approach to be clear, based on- on- on- on two pillars, one dialogue and I- I fully share, as well as the willingness of your president to dialogue. And I’m sure that President Putin can be ready to reopen the dialogue. But if we want a better system in terms of arms control, if we want to stabilize a lot of existing crises in the world today, we need an open and frank dialogue with Russia. On the other side we have to be clear–
MARGARET BRENNAN: So you will you sanction Russia if he invades?
PRESIDENT MACRON: When we are not aligned. And I think after an unacceptable behavior, indeed, we have to sanction. This is what we did after Ukraine or after a- a series of crises that happen. And I think we have to define clear redlines with Russia.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
PRESIDENT MACRON: This is the only way to be credible. I think that sanctions are not sufficient in themselves, but sanctions are part of the package. I do prefer constructive dialogue, but to have a constructive and efficient dialogue, you need credibility.
